keyword & Adwords - 6/20/07

[2007.06.20 17:30:24] Welcome to the CafePress Chat Room
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[2007.06.20 18:58:15] Jim: SUP?
[2007.06.20 18:58:15] SyedCP: Yo.
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[2007.06.20 18:58:57] Jim: is there still an official chat going on?
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[2007.06.20 18:59:04] BrittaCP: yes... we'll be ready in a minute
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[2007.06.20 19:03:18] Shannon (hazeleyes7): Good day everyone! :)
[2007.06.20 19:03:20] Shannon (hazeleyes7): Evening Britta, Ashley, Syed, et al! :)
[2007.06.20 19:03:32] BrittaCP: Hi everyone... thanks for joining us today
[2007.06.20 19:04:12] BrittaCP: We've got someone new here... Syed, Ashley, and Kate
[2007.06.20 19:04:30] BrittaCP: they do some awesome stuff for us when it comes to Google and such
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[2007.06.20 19:05:01] BrittaCP: Just a reminder, this chat is moderated... so if you don't see you question pop up right away... that's why
[2007.06.20 19:05:10] AngelaCP has entered the room "CafePress Chat Room"
[2007.06.20 19:05:27] AngelaCP: hi everyone!
[2007.06.20 19:05:31] Message sent to moderator(s)
[2007.06.20 19:05:43] BrittaCP: Alright... so I'll let Syed take it away, and we'll open it to Q&A in a little bit
[2007.06.20 19:06:15] ThE_RiPPeR has entered the room "CafePress Chat Room"
[2007.06.20 19:06:34] SyedCP: Hello everyone! I'm Syed and I handle a portion of our keyword buying for CafePress. Any questions that you all may have on how to get started etc. I would love to answer them.
[2007.06.20 19:07:01] AngelaCP: Hi Sophelia, you can go the perferences tab up top, go to User Options, and select the options you want to turn off.
[2007.06.20 19:07:13] AngelaCP: sorry, about that...
[2007.06.20 19:07:22] SyedCP: Has anyone tried buying keywords on Google etc before?
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[2007.06.20 19:07:40] NiftyGaloot: Yep!
[2007.06.20 19:07:42] Timewarp: yes
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[2007.06.20 19:07:50] gr8dane: What is keyword buying? I'm new to this chatroom too
[2007.06.20 19:07:50] SyedCP: It is the process of buying paid search listings on search engines such as Google, Yahoo!, and MSN. Advertisers are charged by the engine based on a “pay-per-click” model, where you pay for how many times your ad was clicked.
[2007.06.20 19:08:20] Shannon (hazeleyes7): Been working on that lately
[2007.06.20 19:09:01] Sophelia: Syed, I did for my company and was surprised at how many minutes it took to completely wipe out our monthly budget. ;-)
[2007.06.20 19:09:01] SyedCP: Well, there's ways of doing it so that you don't end up wiping out your budget.
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[2007.06.20 19:10:08] gr8dane: Why buy it? I mean my store comes up frequently in top searches for Great Dane stuff. How would it benefit?
[2007.06.20 19:10:08] SyedCP: Well, a lot of studies have shown that having paid search results show up next to natural searches can help you in increasing your sales because you're getting more exposure.
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[2007.06.20 19:11:17] SyedCP: For those of you who haven't had much experience, you start out by opening an account on one of the search engines. You then bid on keywords that you think people would enter when looking for your products. You then make text ads and select what page on your site you would like people to land on when they click on your ad.
[2007.06.20 19:11:27] Sophelia: gr8dane, it's more for people who aren't showing up at the top like you....and want to. :-)
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[2007.06.20 19:12:44] diss: Hi, new here...
[2007.06.20 19:12:48] BrittaCP: welcome diss!
[2007.06.20 19:13:18] diss: thank you!
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[2007.06.20 19:15:51] diss: They want me to increase my bids to $10.00 per click for all the keywords, which will bankrupt me in a few days!
[2007.06.20 19:15:51] SyedCP: Yeah, diss, that's been an issue for a lot of people using AdWords. This usually happens if Google finds that your ad and keywords aren't relevant enough. You want to make sure that the keywords, the ads and landing page a relevant to each other.
[2007.06.20 19:16:16] gr8dane: So it'd show up on the right hand side under "Sponsor Links" on google, yes?
[2007.06.20 19:16:16] SyedCP: That's correct
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[2007.06.20 19:18:39] besttees: we were talking about this in the lobby b4 the chat, but i would love to hear a specific example of what someone spent on a target keywords, how long they ran it, and if they could corelate an increase in sales, to spend a 100 in a week you need to sell 20 $5 markup items to break even, no one on the google forums ever speaks specifically, as a helpful example, either positive or negative, thanks
[2007.06.20 19:18:40] SyedCP: Besttees, good question. The secret is finding cheaper terms that may get you a decent return on your spend. Granted that can take a bit of testing to figure out, but there are definitely ways to make sure that you don't end up blowing your entire budget.
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[2007.06.20 19:20:59] NJ Gal: i never paid more then $.20 per keyword and set a limit per month and per day - and i still lost money
[2007.06.20 19:20:59] SyedCP: It's not just about buying keywords. A lot of thought needs to go into what ads you're running, how targeted to the keywrods they are. And when someone gets to your page, does it relate to what they were initially looking for
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[2007.06.20 19:21:51] SyedCP: One other thing to remember is that broader terms such as "dog" or "cat" are going to cost you more, so maybe look into terms more specific to breeds to get some customers that way.
[2007.06.20 19:22:36] PamelaRiceHahn: Are there any on CP who have some specific "I spent $X per click and it took Y clicks to = a sale" examples?
[2007.06.20 19:22:36] SyedCP: Anybody have anything to share on that?
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[2007.06.20 19:23:00] NiftyGaloot: Go for phrases by using quotes around the words
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[2007.06.20 19:24:03] maryo: I would say be as specific as possible with your keywords and just as importantly with your landing page.
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[2007.06.20 19:25:30] AngelaCP: To be able to track your sales from ads, you get a tracking code from the search engine place and you can place that on a page that you can direct customers to after they check out of your shop. This is an option found in the Shop Information page called "Return Page After Shopping". If your sale came from your ad and lands on this page, it will track it.
[2007.06.20 19:26:04] SyedCP: Yeah, the most important thing is keeping things as relevant as possible. We've all had the experience of clicking on a Google ad that promised one thing and we ended up on a random page.
[2007.06.20 19:26:12] Sophelia: ahhhhhh excellent!!
[2007.06.20 19:27:13] gr8dane: About what % of ones monthly sales do you think should go into advertising? About what is the "average" of monthly profit sales does the typical CP store do?
[2007.06.20 19:27:13] SyedCP: Anybody wanna share?
[2007.06.20 19:27:43] Sophelia: Syed - I think it would be easier for us if we had a way of tracking ROI - if we could see stats on completed sales, where they came from, etc. so we would know, for sure, that sale A came from google adword B.
[2007.06.20 19:27:43] SyedCP: Did Angela pretty much answer your question?
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[2007.06.20 19:28:37] Sophelia: hehe yes, that was why I yelled back there. *sheepish grin* thanks
[2007.06.20 19:28:49] Shannon (hazeleyes7): Just to let you know, terms like "Akita Dog Gifts" and other breeds with "Dog Gifts" at the end are very expensive as well. :P
[2007.06.20 19:28:49] SyedCP: Once again, the price of a keyword depends greatly on the relevance of your ads and landing pages, something Google calls their Quality Score.
[2007.06.20 19:29:36] scarebaby: Can someone talk about what kind of landing page is the best? and worst?
[2007.06.20 19:29:36] SyedCP: Plus terms with the word "gifts" tend to be on the expensive side because a lot of bigger companies with big budgets to blow are bidding on them too
[2007.06.20 19:29:47] Shannon (hazeleyes7): You can edit each of the keywords to have a different landing page so you want to make sure the customer lands on a relevant page - you dont need them all to land on your main page
[2007.06.20 19:29:47] SyedCP: Great point
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[2007.06.20 19:30:48] besttees: Angela, wouldn't that also lead to all sales been tracked on the return page even if they didn't orginate from the adword? i honestly don't know
[2007.06.20 19:30:48] SyedCP: Can you clarify your question a bit, besttees?
[2007.06.20 19:30:51] Sophelia: gr8: i had heard in the past that it should be about 10% of your monthly income (whether actual or what you want the income to be), though I'm not sure that's correct....I am old and memory-challenged after all.
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[2007.06.20 19:32:11] Shannon (hazeleyes7): When starting out, you want to start small and remain on a budget - I started at $2.00 a day per campaign and wouldnt go over $.20 on each of my keyword bids
[2007.06.20 19:32:11] SyedCP: Yes, it's better to start small. Good point.
[2007.06.20 19:32:23] NiftyGaloot: Here's some figures from one of my ads for this month: 22 clicks, 561 impressions, avg. cost $0.08. Had a sale the other day from it, $12.00 commission.
[2007.06.20 19:32:23] SyedCP: Thanks Nifty
[2007.06.20 19:32:51] diss: NiftyGaloot, you mean phrases with quotation marks at beginning and end?
[2007.06.20 19:32:54] AngelaCP: besttees, i think i know what you're asking. This landing page will only track sales coming from your ads. The code is from the search engine (ie Google) and when sales originate from Google and lands on that page (after check out) Google will track it as a sale from that ad.
[2007.06.20 19:33:49] Fricka: besttees, no it wouldn't the code you get from google is special... however the percent of folks who actually click Return to Page is probably so small that doing as suggested is not a very good test of how effective your ad was
[2007.06.20 19:34:15] AngelaCP: Correct, so it helps track, but not 100% reliable because you're depending on customers clicking on that page to track it
[2007.06.20 19:34:20] AngelaCP: but it's some type of indicator
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[2007.06.20 19:35:23] besttees: ok, thanks, got it
[2007.06.20 19:35:26] Timewarp: you want the landing page to have lots of the same keywords you are bidding on
[2007.06.20 19:35:42] AngelaCP: That's correct. That's also great for SEO - search engine optimization
[2007.06.20 19:36:23] Sophelia: Fricka (etc.) which is why I think it'd be GREAT if we could share in CP's stats/reporting on completed sales. I don't need personal info from the customer, but knowing how they got there, going that one step beyond my stats code, would be so helpful. It's the only thing missing from the reporting we have now.
[2007.06.20 19:36:27] besttees: thanks for the example Nifty!
[2007.06.20 19:36:27] Fricka: But Ithink its almost a BAD way to base your strategy on it. You could think an ad is doing badly but it isn't. We need a better way please! :)
[2007.06.20 19:36:33] NiftyGaloot: Yep, phrases like "Visualize Whirled Peas" not visualize whirled peas. Quotes will make it work only on the whole phase, not just the words.
[2007.06.20 19:36:33] SyedCP: Yes, putting quotes means that your ad will only show up when someone types those words in that order. You can do [whirled peas] and only people typing in that exact phrase will see your ads. This is a good way to get more targeted traffic.
[2007.06.20 19:36:35] Photo Girl has entered the room "CafePress Chat Room"
[2007.06.20 19:36:38] AngelaCP: Thanks for the feedback... :D
[2007.06.20 19:36:39] Sophelia: My hits have improved greatly since I took the advice of a previous chat on SEO and added better keywords to my teaser and description areas (both on the page and for each product).
[2007.06.20 19:36:45] BrittaCP: that's what we like to here!
[2007.06.20 19:36:49] BrittaCP: hear
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[2007.06.20 19:37:55] diss: NiftyGaloot, thank you.
[2007.06.20 19:37:55] jujubee: where to we put the tracking code?
[2007.06.20 19:37:55] SyedCP: As Angela explained, you can put the tracking code on the page you decide to land visitors after they make a purchase through the "Return Page After Shopping" link
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[2007.06.20 19:39:20] diss: So is it better to edit mega tags keywords and use the same keywords for adwords?
[2007.06.20 19:39:20] SyedCP: Well, your metatags will only help with natural results, so you could use those same keywords, but you have the opportunity of buying kw's that aren't in your metatags
[2007.06.20 19:40:10] Fricka: jujubee it's in: Return Page After Shopping (Optional)
This is the page that a customer will link to after they complete an order, otherwise they will return back to your shop -- under Shop Info on your shop management page
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[2007.06.20 19:41:43] 1512blvd: Is there a place on google or on the web with help on what keywords people type most?
[2007.06.20 19:41:43] SyedCP: Yes, there are some really good sites that do that. One of my favorites is: http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/
[2007.06.20 19:42:22] SyedCP: Google also has a tool called Google Trends (just type that into Google to find it) that gives you historical data on keyword searches
[2007.06.20 19:42:31] netbrands: or point it to a masked cloned page
[2007.06.20 19:43:30] Timewarp: well out of a few hundred sales i've noticed NO ONE visit the thanks for shopping page, this is bad info, a better way to track with google analytics is using the cart as a goal although that isn't perfect either.
[2007.06.20 19:43:30] SyedCP: Yeah, it would be nice to have some sort of an automatic redirect to record sales more efficiently, but it's not something we have right now
[2007.06.20 19:44:45] SyedCP: As far as researching keywords, once you sign up with Google, you can access they're cool keyword tool as well. Other than giving you search data, it gives you other similar keywords that you may want to consider adding to your account.
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[2007.06.20 19:47:14] SyedCP: To talk a bit more about increasing your quality score to get better cost per click, I would suggest that you group similar keywords into the same ad group. E.g. having all siamese cat related terms in the same ad group and then talking about siamese cats in your ads, and then landing them on a siamese cat page.
[2007.06.20 19:47:26] SyedCP: Having some other cat breed in the ad group may make some of your ads for the search irrelevant
[2007.06.20 19:47:32] Fricka: Timewarp how do you use cart as a goal with google analytics?
[2007.06.20 19:47:33] Timewarp: i use the cart as a goal but put the value at about half of what a sale is, that accounts for 2 cart views per sale, it gives a general idea and works better then when i tried the return page strategy.
[2007.06.20 19:47:41] Dooni Designs has left the room (logged out)
[2007.06.20 19:47:43] Sophelia: google base is also an EXCELLENT source of hit traffic. It takes a while to do, but there are many tools out there that you can use to compile your store's information. The forums have lots of good comparisons and how-to on doing this.
[2007.06.20 19:47:43] SyedCP: Yes, great tool
[2007.06.20 19:48:01] ThE_RiPPeR: so the "thank you" page is not automatic??
[2007.06.20 19:48:17] BrittaCP: The thank you for your order page is automatic... the return to shop is not
[2007.06.20 19:48:25] BrittaCP: there is a link that the customer can click\
[2007.06.20 19:49:15] BrittaCP: it will take the customer to the page that you specify
[2007.06.20 19:49:39] SyedCP: Google actually makes a lot of this stuff easy by giving some tips and pointers to increase the efficiency of your campaigns: https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/static.py?page=tips.html
[2007.06.20 19:49:57] SyedCP: Come on guys, I know you have more questions...
[2007.06.20 19:50:10] NiftyGaloot: Adam gave some good advice on building a landing page in another forum, gave permission to post it, it's here: http://www.toolsandtips4pods.com/?page_id=16
[2007.06.20 19:51:20] SyedCP: Yeah, making sure that you're making it easy for the shopper to browse what they were looking for is very important. Internet shoppers have very low attention spans. If they don't find what they want right away, they're gonna get out and look elsewhere.
[2007.06.20 19:52:11] Shannon (hazeleyes7): What is the worst mistake any shopkeeper can make when using PPC ads?
[2007.06.20 19:52:11] SyedCP: I think it would be not keeping an eye on your budget. Any other things you guys can think of?
[2007.06.20 19:52:45] Shannon (hazeleyes7): No more questions from me - thank you! :)
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[2007.06.20 19:53:48] Fricka: Syed how about a list of common mistakes or your favorite best practices?
[2007.06.20 19:53:48] SyedCP: When I'm creating a campaign, I like to get into the shoes of the shopper and try to track the entire experience from the initial search to landing on the page from their eyes. I can't stress the importance of relevance at every step of the process.
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[2007.06.20 19:54:12] Timewarp: frika use this URL: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/viewcart.aspx you will notice if you visit the cart from your shop the template is intact so the tracking code will be too. Note this will register a goal everytime they look at their cart but its an aproximation of sales.
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[2007.06.20 19:55:01] NiftyGaloot: If we're showing up in natural search on the first page several times for a keyword, should we stop the ads or keep doing them till we have the entire first page of results?
[2007.06.20 19:55:01] SyedCP: As I mentioned earlier, it's great to run ads and natural results at the same time. It gives you higher exposure and a higher likelihood of gettng a click
[2007.06.20 19:55:14] PamelaRiceHahn: Are there any successful CPers willing to share what their keyword ads budgets are -- and what type of return they're getting for those budgets?
[2007.06.20 19:55:46] Fricka: I sent a Q in, that hasnt shown up
[2007.06.20 19:55:56] AngelaCP: Can you resend it Fricka?
[2007.06.20 19:56:02] AngelaCP: We don't see it....
[2007.06.20 19:56:08] 1512blvd: Will the transcript of this chat be available somewhere?
[2007.06.20 19:56:16] besttees: this is a tangent, but seems related, in the normal google search results, i sometimes see a link to a cafepress.com page for one of my products, but it isn't a link from my own domain, the link has a bunch long number strings in it, is this a cafepress.com tool used to submit to google, or is this sort of link an affiliate placed link?
[2007.06.20 19:56:16] SyedCP: Are you talking about natural results or paid ones?
[2007.06.20 19:56:16] BrittaCP: of course... sometime next week
[2007.06.20 19:56:17] AngelaCP: Yes, it will be up next week
[2007.06.20 19:56:44] netbrands: maybe match key phrases in your photo keywords with the adword phrases that you choose as well as point it to that page
[2007.06.20 19:56:44] SyedCP: Yeah, great idea
[2007.06.20 19:57:06] Fricka: Angela.. it just went through.. it was about best practices one :) thansk for the answer too Syed :)
[2007.06.20 19:57:08] AngelaCP: :)
[2007.06.20 19:57:26] Shadow: good for those that showed up late *grins*
[2007.06.20 19:57:54] besttees: natural results
[2007.06.20 19:57:57] Timewarp: Syed, can you tell us anything about CP plans for adwords campains on your end?
[2007.06.20 19:57:57] SyedCP: We actually run a pretty big account already, but all our ads point to our marketplace, not to shopkeeper links.
[2007.06.20 19:58:14] NiftyGaloot: This month I've spent around $4.00 on adwords and have made several sales for commissions around $20.00
[2007.06.20 19:58:47] AngelaCP: besttees, organic/natural results is based on Google's algothrim and depends on how you've optimize your page for search
[2007.06.20 19:59:07] netbrands: I don't use them yet as I haven't covered all the free places to use
[2007.06.20 19:59:07] SyedCP: Can you clarify?
[2007.06.20 19:59:23] AngelaCP: You can improve your ranking by optimizing your page for search
[2007.06.20 19:59:35] AngelaCP: be sure to check out our prevoius SEO workshops and SEO tutorials for more tipos
[2007.06.20 20:00:11] BrittaCP: you can find them here: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/community/chat
[2007.06.20 20:00:24] BrittaCP: We'll also have this chat posted ther elater
[2007.06.20 20:00:26] netbrands has left the room (logged out)
[2007.06.20 20:00:35] BrittaCP: *there later
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[2007.06.20 20:00:45] BrittaCP: Alright gang.... the hour is up
[2007.06.20 20:01:04] BrittaCP: We're sorry if we didn't get all questions
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[2007.06.20 20:01:18] BrittaCP: Thank you Syed for spending the hour with everyone
[2007.06.20 20:01:27] BrittaCP: It was his first Chat... Well done!
[2007.06.20 20:01:28] Message sent to moderator(s)
[2007.06.20 20:01:28] SyedCP: This has been fun guys. Wish you guys all the success with those keywords!
[2007.06.20 20:01:31] besttees: right, my own domain pages show up fine because of my keywords, but this natural result, links directly to a cafepress.com product shown in the frame of the marketplace.
[2007.06.20 20:01:38] NJ Gal: thanks!!! is the lobby open again?
[2007.06.20 20:01:55] BrittaCP: of course
[2007.06.20 20:02:00] Timewarp: thanks CP people :)
[2007.06.20 20:02:00] AngelaCP: That page is a cafepress page
[2007.06.20 20:02:31] AngelaCP: meaning our page ranked higher due to some of the SEO we have done on our site
[2007.06.20 20:02:40] garyoa1 has left the room (logged out)
[2007.06.20 20:02:59] besttees: here's an example do search google death valley national park t-shirt (no quotes) the 5th result links to my product but not via my own domain, the 6th result DOES link to my page with that same product, is the 5th link CP or someone running there own affiliate page?
[2007.06.20 20:03:23] Karen has left the room (logged out)
[2007.06.20 20:03:24] BrittaCP has left the room (logged out)
[2007.06.20 20:03:39] AngelaCP: correct, so the 5th link is to our page and if an affiliate is running their page and they optmized their page for search, that is why they may rank higher
[2007.06.20 20:04:03] I'm late has left the room (logged out)
[2007.06.20 20:04:07] NiftyGaloot has left the room (logged out)